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PlayMaker News => General Discussion => Topic started by: Just on June 07, 2016, 06:30:27 AM

Title: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: Just on June 07, 2016, 06:30:27 AM
Hi everyone!

I have a few questions regarding Playmaker and Nintendo's partnership as much as NDA comply.

Last dated messages implied that negotations with Nintendo hasn't been exactly favorable state for Playmaker. According to licensed developer, "enhanced support like Wii U custom actions" doesn't work (I refer to this thread, second post of this page: http://hutonggames.com/playmakerforum/index.php?topic=5371.15 (http://hutonggames.com/playmakerforum/index.php?topic=5371.15). What custom actions are we talking about here (if NDA comply to answer the question)? Does things like gamepad support still work?

It's been a few years since last talk about Nintendo here. Has situation changed at all, or has it been stalemate since then?
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: jeanfabre on June 07, 2016, 07:55:14 AM
Hi,

 Yeah, I am not too sure what is the situation with Nintendo at the moment, they where having a booth at Unite, but they sadly looked very lonely with not much attention, and it has been discussed around as to what could be changed to improve the situation.

 The best way to go about this is to make some noise to them, saying "We want to develop on your devices, but you have to embrace the way we want to work, and not the other way around". Something like that anyway. I am sure you'll find a more politically correct way of saying that :) but that's the bottom line it seems ( at least to me...)

Meaning, Unity is what it is, and the Unity's middleware world is not something that can be ignored. Yes, most games are indie games and this means most of them will never make it, it's a statistic no one can argue with. Does that means they should be "picky" about who can get in and get support and keep having a "corporate" attitude? I don't know... maybe, maybe not, it depends your point of view.

So, you should contact Nintendo and ask them what they are ready to do for you. On our side, it's simply not possible to go further than where we are with it. It may have changed since then, but I am not aware of it then.

Basically, having proper c# skills is mandatory if you want to develop for Nintendo, PlayMaker does work and can be used to produce games for Nintendo, but we can't really get in to support you within the Nintendo developer network world.

Bye,

 Jean
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: Just on July 11, 2016, 02:39:48 AM
Bumping this thread to let you know, Nintendo just made their developer portal more approachable to join. Now even individuals can join there, you only need to comply with their NDA and you're golden (and you don't need to pay for devkits or anything else to access there). That should made things easier for technical standpoint to support Nintendo platform with Playmaker.

13.7 Edit: I probably should answer the question I had in my OP for anyone else interested.

So basically what they meant having "no custom actions" is just need to code all hardware specific stuffs (such as GamePad functionality) to work by coding them. Obviously you can't do that with Playmaker itself. In other words, games made with Playmaker works with Wii U UI, just don't expect to be able get away from coding.

And here comes my new question. Since developer portal is now open for non-developers to join, would it be realistic to expect support from Playmaker for hardware specific actions? I'm asking that since there exists mobile specific actions.
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: jeanfabre on July 21, 2016, 06:17:04 AM
Hi,

 Very good news. I guess their booth at Unite in Amsterdam made them realize they need to understand and comply with the developers using Unity and not the other way around ( which shows how much Unity is now central... amazing)

I think for very very specific questions, I'll be ok to tackle that, but without hardware, it's not possible to guarantee, so someone will likely have to make the bridge and test custom actions. So I don't expect any major support until hardware is available no. Having already worked in some small api for this, I know how twisted and complex it can be, and without proper testing, it would be dangerous to claim proper support.

I think we need to call for support for the developers with hardware having an interest in PlayMaker and nintendo, maybe some kind soul will step in and provide support.

 Bye,

 Jean
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: createasaurus on July 31, 2016, 02:58:48 PM
Hi Just and jeanfabre,

I'm a Wii U dev and I've been using Playmaker / Unity / Wii U with great success.  There are others too... But I think our numbers are small.  I never am sure about NDA so I'm extra careful what I say on forums, but here are some tips:
1.) join up with Nintendo, it's easy and free to do.
2.) visit the Nintendo dev forums, search Playmaker, you will find discussions, but most importantly a very, simple way to put the Playmaker settings to work with Wii U
3.) pretty much everything basic works easy and fine... But there are some special things that would require someone to write (or copy and paste existing code) into custom actions... Examples off the top of my head are triggering rumble, and things involving MiiVerse stamps, stuff like that.
4.) I'm a beginner with game design.  Wii U and Playmaker are my first game design experience, so I'm not too much help troubleshooting, but I guarentee it works fine.
5.) if you are curious what can be done, I just made a fully Playmaker game on Wii U, called B3 Game Expo For Bees.  Probably can find a video on YouTube.

Best luck!!  Hope to see you on the Nintendo dev fourms.  And thank you Playmaker for being the best software in the universe, that allowed me, a beginner to release a counsel game. ;)
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: Rabagast on July 31, 2016, 05:35:10 PM
Hi!
I contacted Nintendo to ask them how I can develop for Wii U. They were very helpful. I got a link so I can register. There you can download Unity for Wii U.
But you need an extra hardware you can buy there and this is very expensive.
So even if you don't need Unity Pro and an extra Wii U license, you need to pay a lot before you can start to develop.
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: createasaurus on August 01, 2016, 04:55:45 AM
Hi Rabagast,
Great points!  One clarification, yes, before you publish you would need to buy a dev kit, which some may consider expensive.  Personally, I do not consider this expensive because I've made many times the dev kit money back on either of my 2 games (done totally with Playmaker.)
However, you can start to develop for free.  The program is free to join, and you can access the fourms and documents and begin developing on the free Unity Pro for Wii U.  Eventually you need the dev kit to send builds to the hardware to test and ultimately publish.
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: Rabagast on August 01, 2016, 05:44:16 AM
Hi!

So I can for example make the game in Unity and also test it on my Mac, like I normal do, and when the game is finished I can buy this Dev Kit and and then test it on Wii U? Another problem I have, is that Unity for Wii U is only for Windows.
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: jeanfabre on August 02, 2016, 12:51:54 AM
Hi,

 Thanks for sharing your experience and success story, this is great!

Is that this link?

http://www.famousgamous.com/index.html

http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/b3-game-expo-for-bees-wii-u


Bye,

 Jean


Hi Just and jeanfabre,

I'm a Wii U dev and I've been using Playmaker / Unity / Wii U with great success.  There are others too... But I think our numbers are small.  I never am sure about NDA so I'm extra careful what I say on forums, but here are some tips:
1.) join up with Nintendo, it's easy and free to do.
2.) visit the Nintendo dev forums, search Playmaker, you will find discussions, but most importantly a very, simple way to put the Playmaker settings to work with Wii U
3.) pretty much everything basic works easy and fine... But there are some special things that would require someone to write (or copy and paste existing code) into custom actions... Examples off the top of my head are triggering rumble, and things involving MiiVerse stamps, stuff like that.
4.) I'm a beginner with game design.  Wii U and Playmaker are my first game design experience, so I'm not too much help troubleshooting, but I guarentee it works fine.
5.) if you are curious what can be done, I just made a fully Playmaker game on Wii U, called B3 Game Expo For Bees.  Probably can find a video on YouTube.

Best luck!!  Hope to see you on the Nintendo dev fourms.  And thank you Playmaker for being the best software in the universe, that allowed me, a beginner to release a counsel game. ;)
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: createasaurus on August 03, 2016, 08:00:44 AM
Hi Jean,
Yes! Those are my links. Thank you for for all the help (I don't know if you remember helping me a couple years back when I was just starting). And I am always reading Playmaker fourms to help me along.  Thank you Jean!!

B3 Game Expo For Bees (just released), and Keytari (1 year ago) are my absolute first game development experiences.  I have an art background, but I always wanted to make a game... Specifically for Nintendo.  Playmaker made it all possible.  I got Unity, Playmaker, and the Wii U Dev kit, just a couple years ago, that was the begining of game dev for me.

Hi Rabagast,
Yes! You could develop first... Then when you are done, get dev kit, remap controls, then publish.
However...
1)It is more efficent to develop with the kit, so you can constently test your work in the final environment.  Because you may be suprised by some things that may not work... Maybe some shaders, maybe other plugins, maybe lots of itween was fine on your Mac but not on Wii U.  Who knows?  This will save you rework... If you are testing as you develop.
2)Mac support.  I don't know.  I think the kits are designed for PC, not sure status of this changing, or if a work around has already been made.
3)Wii U lifecycle.  This is personal opinion, but I know it took me some time to set up the kit, learn all the stuff, and go through the publishing process.  If I was starting now, I would consider how long the lifecycle for the Wii U may be.  With that said, the Nintendo dev community is not just for the Wii U, but also for the 3ds and in future who knows what future systems? ;)
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: Rabagast on August 05, 2016, 03:04:49 AM
Thank you! :-)

Is it possible to develop on Mac and then copy the project to another Windows PC and open the project there and continue the work?
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: Just on August 08, 2016, 06:28:34 AM
I just want humbly express my gratitude for Createasaurus giving current insight of using Playmaker with Nintendo's platform, while being new to game development no less. You gave great answers for concerns I had.

I plan to join developer's portal at some point, fact that there exist projects made solely with Playmaker gives me more optimistic viewpoint to able work with it. I think it's wise to join there once I have something ready enough to start working with porting.

I agree it's wise to consider ending lifecycle of Wii U, I'm looking forward to see what kind of tricks NX has in it's sleeve. :)

For final question I have, did you got any performance issues with projects? If you had, were you able easily to overcome with them?
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: Seiryu33 on January 26, 2017, 03:27:12 AM
Since Nintendo has officially started to support Unity on 3Ds, are there any custom actions planned for Playmaker? For instance utilizing the dual screen set up. It would stand to reason that you could make do without it, but I can see that getting cumbersome quickly since pretty much every 3ds game uses it.
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: Seiryu33 on January 26, 2017, 11:21:11 PM
Bump. Got to keep this topic fresh. Since Switch hasn't been announced for Unity and Wii U is on it's way out, interested in knowing if there's an 3Ds support.
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: jeanfabre on January 26, 2017, 11:41:05 PM
Hi,

 I have personally raised our case to the Nintendo managers at Unite few years ago and the answer is no, there will be no support or help coming from their side for middlewares, because there is simply too little developers that will use PlayMaker and Nintendo and even less chance for this small amount of developers to actually publish anything, and generate income.

It's understandable from their point of view. Simply put It means no free dev kit for us to develop something for the community, so we have no way to validate and test any work ourselves.

I would contact Nintendo instead, but their answers will likely be "Learn scripting or pay someone to script, an pay for the dev kit in any cases".

It's of course a good move I'd say, but maybe they are short and so giving away dev kits isn't in their politics because it's expensive.

 Maybe things have changed, so get in touch with Nintendo, you can mention me and Alex if they want to open a discussion on this topic.

 Bye,

 Jean
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: Just on February 17, 2017, 09:07:51 AM
I have applied for them succesfully. Jean, I have a few things to clarify. Please check your PM.
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: Just on February 17, 2017, 12:59:37 PM
Bump. Got to keep this topic fresh. Since Switch hasn't been announced for Unity and Wii U is on it's way out, interested in knowing if there's an 3Ds support.

Unity works with Switch and New 3DS. Be aware you have to do some coding though.
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: jeanfabre on February 19, 2017, 11:24:15 PM
Hi,

 Replied to PM, basically, we can't commit to any productive support if we can't get access to a dev kit.

I would suggest that you gather all playmaker owners on the nintendo forum and get a feel of how many you are and what are your common problems and raise your voice to Nintendo.

Bye,

 Jean
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: Seiryu33 on February 28, 2017, 02:19:51 AM
Unfortunately the reason for having Playmaker is DON'T know coding. I know it enough for the purposes of using Playmaker but as far as where my assets go in the code I'm pretty useless. Even incorrect placement can ruin the whole code.
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: createasaurus on March 07, 2017, 12:35:33 PM
A few years ago I started learning Unity, PlayMaker, and Wii U development, all at the same time.  I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY wanted Nintendo and Playmaker to make an official agreement, with official support, etc.  That never happened.  So after putting aside any hurt feelings on this matter, a handful of us figured out how to get PlayMaker to run by simply adjusting some settings.  Also, a few have made and shared custom actions, etc (on the Nintendo dev forums).  I was happily able to release 2 PlayMaker powered games for Wii U.  My guess is history will repeat itself with the Switch (as of this time I do not yet have a Swich dev kit).  My advice is, if you love Nintendo, and hope to make a game with Playmaker... just start.  Get on the Nintendo Dev Portal and sign up.  Not having "official" support was not a deterrent last generation.  Best luck to everybody and keep having fun!!
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: jeanfabre on March 08, 2017, 10:47:15 PM
Hi,

 Thanks for sharing your experience, it's very valuable!

We're very sorry we can't commit in supporting nintendo platform with the current context indeed. Keep making great content, If you prove titles can be made with PlayMaker, then the nintendo guys might reconsider. And also from our end, if you are more and more to request support, we can push for it.

But as always, I can't personally really imagine starting to get a dev kit for each Unity build target there is... android, IOS, Windows Photon, Samsung Tv, tyzen, sony, nintendo, xbox... etc etc, that's a lot and it calls for sorting from "must have" to "nice to have" to "waiting for the dev kit to to be sent for free" :). So I'am not sure we can do much if the vendors of these dev kit don't democratize and push for middleware to own one and provide support.


 Bye,

 Jean
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: Xander Davis on May 31, 2017, 10:24:29 PM
This is a pretty huge issue, really.  Mainly because PlayMaker is so easy to use and so powerful, it's way more efficient than scripting, especially for non-developers / designers.

For indies, it's a pretty big ask to start a massive game project that could take potentially a year or more and a lot of money (usually out of pocket), all on faith that PlayMaker will "just work" then.  Without that assurance, it's too big of a risk to be reasonable for a professional studio or game project, leading us to not even try to use PlayMaker at all going forward.

Makeshift workarounds will likely break all the time with Unity / Switch OS / PlayMaker updates, that it would be a nightmare.

So I would definitely like to throw my hat into the ring and say if PlayMaker is to be used in Unity as a go-to solution for fast visual scripting (which is how we use it!), then we definitely need Switch support confirmed as soon as possible.  Preferably yesterday.

It seems unreasonable that Nintendo won't give out or at least sell a devkit to Hutong.  If they are willing to sell it, Hutong absolutely should buy it, as PlayMaker should support at least all major current-gen consoles, namely Xbox One / PS4 / Switch.

Frustration...
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: tcmeric on May 31, 2017, 10:37:56 PM
I don't know if it is reasonable to ask hutong to keep buying dev kits for every console that comes out. Unity supports a lot of platforms and it keeps changing every year. Nowhere do they claim to do so in their advertising or on the asset page.

That being said, if there was enough interest to crowdfund the cost of a dev kit and some development time, I am sure a developer could be found to create the necessary playmaker actions (if possible). Heck, that sounds like a lot of fun to me.

PS, I read online that the dev kit for switch is around 500$ this time, which is far far less than the 2,5000 for Wii U!
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: tcmeric on June 01, 2017, 12:53:04 AM
Since the reported price is approx 500, which to me is pretty reasonable, my company signed up the developers portal today. I guess we will see what happens there. Ill keep you updated. Based on other peoples posts however, it could take a lifetime to get the darn dev kit, even if I bought it today (which is not an option).
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: DennisJensen on January 12, 2018, 04:20:35 AM
I just wanted to write my 2 cents.

We are using playmaker and porting to the switch.

We had some small initals problems, since Playmaker isn't really supported, but people are using it, and on the forums for Nintendo you will be able to find the fixes. Other than that its been pretty straight forward. There is some things that not supported in Unity as well, but all devs have to deal with that. So far it's been really easy for us to port, and a not a lot of hassle, from a playmaker point of view. So go for it guys :)
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: jeanfabre on January 16, 2018, 12:36:48 AM
Hi,

 Thanks Dennis for this feedback.

 Don't hesitate to bubble up these fixes back to us, we are willing to support as much as possible these console platforms, so if we can make the process easier by implementing some fixes, way to go! report to me or simply file bug reports, we'll catch them.

 Bye,

 Jean
Title: Re: Nintendo and developing with Playmaker - current status?
Post by: DennisJensen on January 17, 2018, 08:27:22 AM
Hi Jean,

I would love to help out and share with you what I found. I will just need to free some time, right now I'm really busy, but I will remember it and send you a update.